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Mason's 1968 model 05

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Re: Mason's 1968 model 05
Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:36 pm


I hope that on the Series 60 it is all by Detroit. I have the complete application and installation manual for DDEC III, plus the separate Troubleshooting Guide for III, they are both full sized and about 3" thick. One thing I noticed while thumbing through them is that the ECM requires a direct connection to the batteries, rather than through a relay from the front. Another thing I just noticed is that "DDEC III provides twelve discrete input pins on the vehicle harness which may be customized to the customer application." This might mean that your donor bus has differences from other makes. There is a lot of guidance and steps to go through, the first question is, is yours DDEC III, and do you have a diagnostic reader like Silverleaf or Pro-Link? There is also the process of going through flash codes. I also noticed a warning that you can not weld on the bus unless the wires to the ECM are totally disconnected, and that would have included the donor bus prior to moving things over. That would account for ECM malfunction (I hope not). :shock:
Walter
Dayton, Ohio
1975 Silvereagle Model 05, 8V71, 4 speed Spicer
1982 Eagle Model 10, 6V92, 5 speed Spicer
1984 Eagle Model 10, 6V92 w/Jacobs, Allison HT740
1994 Eagle Model 15-45, Series 60 w/Jacobs, Allison HT746
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DoubleEagle
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Re: Mason's 1968 model 05
Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:08 pm


It is DDEC IV... anyway that is what detroit told me :|

I do not believe i have welded on anything with the batteries connected. That rule goes for anything with a computer at our place! ;)

I do not have a diagnostic reader, would that help me?

And yes, i too have the application and installation manual, and troubleshooting manual.

Looking at the bluebird wiring diagrams, currently it looks like the parking brake interlock is holding it from starting. Tomorrow I will work on finding where those wires end :shock: There was quite a bit more wiring on the blue bird then the eagles, luckily no computers, tho! Unfortunately I can not read some of the blue bird diagrams, they are too blurred, oh well, I keep digging away, one problem at a time!
1968 05 Eagle 8v71 with roadranger 9 speed,
04/25/19 starting upgrade to series 60! and B500
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Location: McCook NE


Re: Mason's 1968 model 05
Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:31 pm


That's good, you have what I have. The III & IV have the same wiring connections, the IV has a few more features. Having a diagnostic reader would be worthwhile if you can get one at a good price. Disconnecting the batteries only was not mentioned as an option, they specifically stated detaching the wires from the ECM. DDEC IV started in 1997, check your date on the valve cover label. III started in 1993. You will figure it out soon enough, you've figured out quite a bit already. ;)
Walter
Dayton, Ohio
1975 Silvereagle Model 05, 8V71, 4 speed Spicer
1982 Eagle Model 10, 6V92, 5 speed Spicer
1984 Eagle Model 10, 6V92 w/Jacobs, Allison HT740
1994 Eagle Model 15-45, Series 60 w/Jacobs, Allison HT746
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DoubleEagle
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Location: Dayton, Ohio


Re: Mason's 1968 model 05
Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:54 am


DDEC also has a clutch switch circuit. I think I simply connected the two wires leading to the switch.

I am pretty sure the neutral safety switch is not part of the DDEC algorithm.

Sorry, been a long time since I played with this.

Jim
Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
'85 Eagle 10 with Series 60 & Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission - not at all fancy, but fully functional
Bus Project pages: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog: http://beltguy.com/blog/
Email: jim@eaglesinternational.net Note: Email sent to the this address requesting technical advice will not receive a response
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beltguy
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Re: Mason's 1968 model 05
Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:12 pm


DoubleEagle wrote:That's good, you have what I have. The III & IV have the same wiring connections, the IV has a few more features. Having a diagnostic reader would be worthwhile if you can get one at a good price. Disconnecting the batteries only was not mentioned as an option, they specifically stated detaching the wires from the ECM. DDEC IV started in 1997, check your date on the valve cover label. III started in 1993. You will figure it out soon enough, you've figured out quite a bit already. ;)



Thanks Walter, that was what i needed to know about years of ddec, it is a December '99 engine so that would for sure be IV.

beltguy wrote:DDEC also has a clutch switch circuit. I think I simply connected the two wires leading to the switch.

I am pretty sure the neutral safety switch is not part of the DDEC algorithm.

Sorry, been a long time since I played with this.

Jim


Jim:. I shouldn't have to worry about the clutch because the blue bird did not have a clutch, so the blue bird wiring harness should have took care of that.

I did find the wiring diagram where where there are several cutouts on the ignition wire, I think that is what I am trying to find.

I believe the engine ignition wire has to have signal if it is going to start.
1968 05 Eagle 8v71 with roadranger 9 speed,
04/25/19 starting upgrade to series 60! and B500
Eagle obsessed
 
Posts: 231
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:37 am
Location: McCook NE


Re: Mason's 1968 model 05
Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:09 pm


Update!

Talked to a bluebird tech, all the interlocks that the old bus had to prevent the engine from starting were on the starter relay, the ignition wire has power all the time the switch is on.

So armed with this information I tackled the troubleshooting manual, discovered only 11 some volts at the ignition wire on the computer. Then did some ohm reading, discovered a short. :x after quite a bit more fiddling with things, unhooking the blue bird dash from the wiring harness solved the problem.

Then as a last minute resort totally purged the fuel lines (again)

So now we have white smoke and dead batteries :|

And by the time all this had passed, our battery charger didn't seem to want to work, so let them slowly charge till tomorrow. :cry: and we were so close!

So that sums today's progress! :shock:
1968 05 Eagle 8v71 with roadranger 9 speed,
04/25/19 starting upgrade to series 60! and B500
Eagle obsessed
 
Posts: 231
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:37 am
Location: McCook NE


Re: Mason's 1968 model 05
Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:11 am


Yesterday got a new battery charger, and purged the fuel lines one more time, because I wanted to make complete sure that there was no air in the lines.

With the new battery charger it really cranked fast! 8-)

We gave it a shot of ether because it still wasn't firing, that was all it took and away it went! :D

So a little less than a year in the shop, and she runs again! 8-)

I have a suspicion that one of the fuel lines has a leak in it allowing fuel to fall back down the suction tube, however I have yet to verify that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dMq-fi ... e=youtu.be
1968 05 Eagle 8v71 with roadranger 9 speed,
04/25/19 starting upgrade to series 60! and B500
Eagle obsessed
 
Posts: 231
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:37 am
Location: McCook NE


Re: Mason's 1968 model 05
Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:48 am


Great! That has to be very satisfying, it sounds good. Beyond your fuel lines, the suction tube could have defects that cause the same problem, depending on the fuel level.
Walter
Dayton, Ohio
1975 Silvereagle Model 05, 8V71, 4 speed Spicer
1982 Eagle Model 10, 6V92, 5 speed Spicer
1984 Eagle Model 10, 6V92 w/Jacobs, Allison HT740
1994 Eagle Model 15-45, Series 60 w/Jacobs, Allison HT746
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DoubleEagle
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Posts: 196
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:26 pm
Location: Dayton, Ohio


Re: Mason's 1968 model 05
Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:36 am


Some (most?) Eagles have a check valve in the fuel supply line to prevent loss of prime. If you don't have one, it is easy to add.

Again, I really want to encourage everyone to convert to a Fuel Pro type of fuel filter. It will give you a visual of what is happening in your fuel system and virtually solve loss of prime problems (if the fuel lines are good).

The Fuel Pro 382 is the most popular: http://www.davco.com/FP382.htm. It is a bit pricey, but they are readily available in truck wrecking yards.

BTW, replacing fuel lines is pretty simple and does not cost much. Most folks us DOT brake tubing which is cheap and easy to work with.

Jim
Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
'85 Eagle 10 with Series 60 & Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission - not at all fancy, but fully functional
Bus Project pages: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog: http://beltguy.com/blog/
Email: jim@eaglesinternational.net Note: Email sent to the this address requesting technical advice will not receive a response
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Re: Mason's 1968 model 05
Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:18 pm


Got a chance to watch the video. Sounds great and no smoke. Congratulations!!

Jim
Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
'85 Eagle 10 with Series 60 & Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission - not at all fancy, but fully functional
Bus Project pages: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog: http://beltguy.com/blog/
Email: jim@eaglesinternational.net Note: Email sent to the this address requesting technical advice will not receive a response
User avatar
beltguy
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Posts: 2379
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:39 am
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