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Reverse Solenoid Problem?

This is a public forum to discuss Eagle related technical issues. If you are having a problem with your Eagle, this is the place to find help.
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bsimmons
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:36 pm
Bus Model: 1972 Model 5 Silver Eagle

Reverse Solenoid Problem?

Post by bsimmons »

So we had made it to camp. It was a bad site, though. The sewer hookup was literally up-hill of my tank outlet. Poop won't travel up hill. So we decided a few days later to move to a site 4 over.

Everything was going great. The bus started right up (that third battery makes a world of difference) and I was doing my best to re-park in the new spot. I got a bit fancy with it and it bit me. I found myself trying to get a better angle to reverse into the site. I had the nose of the bus about 5 feet from a cottage. Suddenly I press the reverse button to shift into reverse and no joy. All I get is second. I confirmed this many times by getting closer and closer to the cottage.

I gave up when I was about 6 inches from the cottage. At that point I had traced the power from the button to through the fuse. I changed a battery (though there was never a loss of power as I stopped and started her several times). I gave up and called my mechanic who said that if I could find the reverse solenoid I could perhaps manually push the arm that would allow me to get into reverse. We texted back and forth. I couldn't get to it from underneath because it sits on top of the transmission. I opened the access panel in the bedroom to get above the transmission but was even more confused by everything I saw. My mechanic sent me a picture of what the solenoid would look like but the engine in the picture was so new it shined like the sun.

I gave up and we called a tow to pull us back into the spot. We found a great guy with a large boom and winch. As I waited for him to show I gave her one more look through the panel and decided maybe I shouldn't look for solenoids but arms. So I found this and fiddled with it:
ReverseSolenoidArm.jpg
The arm was partially out, so I pulled it all the way out. Then I thought I'd better push it back in so I didn't damage anything. It moved waaaaaaay to easily for my taste. It was like pushing/pulling on nothing. I don't even know if that was the solenoid or not. All I know is that the tow guy winched me back into the site and I was crooked so I asked him if I could pull forward, straighten up, then have him winch me back again. He agreed. I straightened out the bus and just for giggles attempted to shift to reverse.......and it worked right away. So I backed up under my own power.

My mechanic is dumbfounded. I was able to shift into 1st and 2nd, no problem. There was no lack of power. What happened?
User avatar
DoubleEagle
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:26 pm
Bus Model: 1975 Model 05 Eagle
1982 Model 10 Eagle
1984 Model 10 Eagle
1994 Model 15-45 Eagle
Location: Dayton, Ohio

Re: Reverse Solenoid Problem?

Post by DoubleEagle »

Your trouble with the reverse solenoid is probably related to bad connections at the switch or the solenoid, or the solenoid is failing. In the event that it does not work, it can be pulled manually (as you did), but you would access it from the drivers side through the wheel well. Something like a small garden hoe can reach straight through to pull the lever to get into reverse, or push it to get back to second. I had trouble with mine twenty years ago, and I put a rope on the lever and tied it to the frame in case it became necessary to get into reverse quickly. The reverse solenoid is yet another reason to switch to another type of manual or an automatic.
Walter
Dayton, Ohio
1975 Silvereagle Model 05, 8V71, 4 speed Spicer
1982 Eagle Model 10, 6V92, 5 speed Spicer
1984 Eagle Model 10, 6V92 w/Jacobs, Allison HT740
1994 Eagle Model 15-45, Series 60 w/Jacobs, Allison HT746
mlneville88
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:37 pm
Bus Model: 1972 Silver Eagle VIN 8VA8711, Body Type - MH, Make - SIEA
Location: Logan, Ohio

Re: Reverse Solenoid Problem?

Post by mlneville88 »

could you tell me the location of the solenoid? I'm having issues with mine all of a sudden. I agree.. i want to swap engine and transmission :-)
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DoubleEagle
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:26 pm
Bus Model: 1975 Model 05 Eagle
1982 Model 10 Eagle
1984 Model 10 Eagle
1994 Model 15-45 Eagle
Location: Dayton, Ohio

Re: Reverse Solenoid Problem?

Post by DoubleEagle »

Well, you did okay for a year, and now it's giving you trouble? That points to bad connections, but there is still the possibility of a bad solenoid. It is a fat round unit on the side of the transmission that is best reached from underneath, as I recall (It has been twenty years since I fooled with one). You probably will need to jack the bus up a bit to give you more elbow room. Make sure you support the bus on blocks or steel jack stands. I would start with redoing all of the connections, and testing the solenoid with a direct wiring.

If you are serious about switching transmissions, or engines, it is not a simple matter. For starters, all other transmissions beyond the Spicer 4 speed are wider, and will require modifying the frame to accommodate even a five speed, a ten speed, or an automatic. I bought a 10 speed RoadRanger transmission in 1996 to put in my Model 05, but the prospect of redoing the framework slowed the project down a bit. I still have the transmission, and the Spicer 4 speed is still in there. I also have a Spicer 5 speed in my 1982 Model 10 that I will not be using now that I have two Allison Automatics. No solenoid necessary on that one. The cheapest solution for you is to get that solenoid working consistently. ;)
Walter
Dayton, Ohio
1975 Silvereagle Model 05, 8V71, 4 speed Spicer
1982 Eagle Model 10, 6V92, 5 speed Spicer
1984 Eagle Model 10, 6V92 w/Jacobs, Allison HT740
1994 Eagle Model 15-45, Series 60 w/Jacobs, Allison HT746
mlneville88
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:37 pm
Bus Model: 1972 Silver Eagle VIN 8VA8711, Body Type - MH, Make - SIEA
Location: Logan, Ohio

Re: Reverse Solenoid Problem?

Post by mlneville88 »

you guys are amazingly helpful here. Being fairly new to the site and fairly new bus owner it is very helpful to have folks to guide you along the way. My o5 model is very solid although i'm not fond of the power plant and the tranny. I have a 2004 CAT c13 engine and Allison tranny that I could put in it. I understand that there would be major mods that are needed to make this work. Frame, floor reconstruction..etc.. probably things I haven't considered yet also. So i'm not sure when I will take this on as we use the bus as a working tour bus for our band. With respect to the tranny, I will test the solenoid out and make sure the connections are all good and solid. It is pretty cold here now, so this may have to wait a few days. I'll update what I find the issue ends up being.
Eagle obsessed
Posts: 322
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:37 am
Bus Model: 1968 model 05 Eagle series 60 and B500
Location: McCook NE

Re: Reverse Solenoid Problem?

Post by Eagle obsessed »

1968 05 Series 60/B500 swap 2019-2021
1971 05 8v71 Spicer 4 speed parts bus
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DoubleEagle
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:26 pm
Bus Model: 1975 Model 05 Eagle
1982 Model 10 Eagle
1984 Model 10 Eagle
1994 Model 15-45 Eagle
Location: Dayton, Ohio

Re: Reverse Solenoid Problem?

Post by DoubleEagle »

Mike, attached is a picture of how you can access the reverse lever on the Spicer 4 speed when the solenoid fails. On the driver side, just behind the drive wheels (toward the rear), you can access the lever that sticks out about four inches from the linkage the solenoid activates. You can barely see it in the picture, but through the triangular opening in the frame, it is possible to use a tool like a gardening hoe to pull or push the lever to get you in reverse without having to open the floor hatch.

In the picture is a rope that is tied to the lever that I put on over twenty years ago as a backup in case the solenoid fails. In the top of the picture is a plastic handle (like used for small engine starting) which is resting on a hook. The rope drapes across the torsilastic, over the frame and up to the lever. The lever is in line with the front edge of the shock absorbers. If the solenoid fails, your willing assistant (not everyone is), can reach in and pull the rope to engage reverse. If the lever does not spring back, it then has to be pushed back in to restore second gear, which can be done with a stick or board. I discovered that a hoe is the ideal tool because it can hook on the lever and pull, and then push it back if necessary, but I left the rope on as a backup.

As you found out, it can be very expensive to not have a way to go in reverse. You also need to be aware of how to shut off the engine when it won't, and how to start the engine when the ignition key doesn't do it. (Shutting off requires a long screwdriver, and starting requires a trigger switch jumper). It is always prudent to have a backup plan for every critical function on an old bus. :o
Attachments
034.JPG
Walter
Dayton, Ohio
1975 Silvereagle Model 05, 8V71, 4 speed Spicer
1982 Eagle Model 10, 6V92, 5 speed Spicer
1984 Eagle Model 10, 6V92 w/Jacobs, Allison HT740
1994 Eagle Model 15-45, Series 60 w/Jacobs, Allison HT746
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