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Chassis battery and stalling issues

This is a public forum to discuss Eagle related technical issues. If you are having a problem with your Eagle, this is the place to find help.
bsimmons
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:36 pm
Bus Model: 1972 Model 5 Silver Eagle

Re: Chassis battery and stalling issues

Post by bsimmons »

I shut it down same as before. Flipped the emergency shutoff. I figured it was better than stalling it on purpose. After I flipped the switch down I went and flipped it back up again and heard some kind of actuating sound with air behind it. Could they have modified this thing to purposely use the emergency shutoff to stop it?
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beltguy
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FMCA #: F246286
Bus Model: 1985 Eagle 10 with Series 60 and Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission (SOLD)
Location: Evergreen, CO
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Re: Chassis battery and stalling issues

Post by beltguy »

At some point in time you are going to need to dig into the alternator circuit. Here are a couple of threads that might be worth reading.

http://eagles-international.net/forums/ ... f=5&t=3167

http://eagles-international.net/forums/ ... f=5&t=1323

Jim
Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
'85 Eagle 10 with Series 60 & Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission SOLD
2005 Dodge 2500 with 5.9 Cummins and 6 speed manual 2022 Sunset 28 foot trailer
Bus Project pages: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog: https://beltguy.com/Travelogue/
Email: eaglesinternational.email at gmail.com   NOTE this email box is only for general correspondence related to the forum and not technical advice.  Technical questions will not receive a response.
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DoubleEagle
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Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:26 pm
Bus Model: 1975 Model 05 Eagle
1982 Model 10 Eagle
1984 Model 10 Eagle
1994 Model 15-45 Eagle
Location: Dayton, Ohio

Re: Chassis battery and stalling issues

Post by DoubleEagle »

Bryan,

Maybe they did set something up to shut it off, I don't have any emergency shut-off's on any of my three Eagles, so I don't know directly what you have. Your Model 05 might be older than mine. To have that as a normal shut-off procedure is really not wise. You need to make peace with that fuel shut-off lever by finding and using it until such time that the Skinner Valve can be overhauled or replaced with a new one, or an electric solenoid. If you can not see it from the rear, try sticking a cell phone or small camera in there to take pictures of the area, or a small mirror. Auto supply stores would have small telescoping mirrors on a rod similar to the device that people use for taking a selfie.

At least you are making progress, now you know why the batteries were not starting the engine very well.
Last edited by DoubleEagle on Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Walter
Dayton, Ohio
1975 Silvereagle Model 05, 8V71, 4 speed Spicer
1982 Eagle Model 10, 6V92, 5 speed Spicer
1984 Eagle Model 10, 6V92 w/Jacobs, Allison HT740
1994 Eagle Model 15-45, Series 60 w/Jacobs, Allison HT746
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DoubleEagle
Club Member
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Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:26 pm
Bus Model: 1975 Model 05 Eagle
1982 Model 10 Eagle
1984 Model 10 Eagle
1994 Model 15-45 Eagle
Location: Dayton, Ohio

Re: Chassis battery and stalling issues

Post by DoubleEagle »

beltguy wrote:At some point in time you are going to need to dig into the alternator circuit. Here are a couple of threads that might be worth reading.

http://eagles-international.net/forums/ ... f=5&t=3167

http://eagles-international.net/forums/ ... f=5&t=1323

Jim
The posts in the second thread from luvrbus (Clifford) and dreamscape (Paul), are particularly relevant for Bryan. I have had trouble with the charging relay and grounds in the past, myself.
Walter
Dayton, Ohio
1975 Silvereagle Model 05, 8V71, 4 speed Spicer
1982 Eagle Model 10, 6V92, 5 speed Spicer
1984 Eagle Model 10, 6V92 w/Jacobs, Allison HT740
1994 Eagle Model 15-45, Series 60 w/Jacobs, Allison HT746
bsimmons
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:36 pm
Bus Model: 1972 Model 5 Silver Eagle

Re: Chassis battery and stalling issues

Post by bsimmons »

I’ll fix the start/stop situation. I’m pretty handy at electronics and circuits and such. It’s the more wrench-specific stuff that I’m new to.

I’m making progress all around, I’d say. If I can get this alternator squared away, we may just leave Pennsylvania.
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DoubleEagle
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Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:26 pm
Bus Model: 1975 Model 05 Eagle
1982 Model 10 Eagle
1984 Model 10 Eagle
1994 Model 15-45 Eagle
Location: Dayton, Ohio

Re: Chassis battery and stalling issues

Post by DoubleEagle »

Bryan,

I checked my 8V71 to see how visible the fuel shut-off arm is when looking from the rear, and compared to the 6V92 engine, it is difficult to see where it is when you not familiar with it. On the 8V71, there is a coolant pipe going right across that area just below the electrical panel. The only way you can see it is between those two, but it is still possible to fit a long screwdriver or metal rod in there to push that lever. Ideally, you need a flat or round bar with a 1/2-3/4" right angle end bent down to be able to push it more easily, and to be able to pull it back in the event that the return spring is not working. Study that picture of the top of the engine that Jim posted to get familiar with what is there.

The other thing that you could do to see better, is get the small center hatch open on the floor in the rear of the coach open. It should be accessible as a matter of course because there are maintenance functions that will come up that will require that it be opened. It has happened before that Previous Owners (PO's) have covered up the hatches with carpet, beds, furniture, etc., not giving engine access a thought. There are large round flat blade type screw heads on the corners of the hatches that only need to be turned a little to release. The problem will be if they have not been turned in years, and are now heavily corroded. If that is the case, use some penetrating oil, a big screwdriver that fills the slot completely, and a vise grip or tight wrench on the screwdriver shaft. You probably don't have one, but a impact drill with the correct sized screwdriver bit usually works well. Banging the head of the screw with a hammer might help loosen it, but don't deform the head. There is aluminum trim around the hatch edge to pry up on, don't be surprised if some of it is missing or falls off as you open it. It is important to reseal it carefully when you close it, as that is all that is keeping engine heat and fumes from coming into the coach.

If the hatch looks like it has not been opened in this century, it does not speak well for the level of maintenance by the PO. That possibility, and the engine shut-off arrangement, means you have to be careful about maintenance.
Walter
Dayton, Ohio
1975 Silvereagle Model 05, 8V71, 4 speed Spicer
1982 Eagle Model 10, 6V92, 5 speed Spicer
1984 Eagle Model 10, 6V92 w/Jacobs, Allison HT740
1994 Eagle Model 15-45, Series 60 w/Jacobs, Allison HT746
bsimmons
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:36 pm
Bus Model: 1972 Model 5 Silver Eagle

Re: Chassis battery and stalling issues

Post by bsimmons »

Ok, so I need some help making sure to identify all the terminals correctly on my 50DN. Here's a shot of the left side:
50DNleftside.jpg
I've circled what appears to be all the terminals on the left of the alternator. The top one seems to be the negative terminal. It's connected by a piece of metal to either a random bolt or some other terminal (circled to the right of it). It's also connected via a very thick cable (what gauge is that?) to the bus frame just above the alternator. Another wire connected to it goes directly to a box above the alternator. The thick cable attached to the frame has been somewhat split and frayed. No doubt that needs replacing but would it account for the alternator not charging?

Just below the negative appears to be the positive terminal. In this next picture you can see there's a lead coming off the positive terminal that has been purposely cut:
50DNleftside2.jpg
What could that lead have been connected to?

Below the positive terminal appears to be a smaller terminal or bolt that has a wire bundled into the positive bundle that goes to the back of the box just above the alternator.

On the right side of the alternator we have 2 bolts or terminals that each have connections. The top one has 2 wires connected and bundled while the bottom one has only a single wire. The hose there has deteriorated to the point of being like a communion wafer. I assume it's some form of exhaust hose?
50DNrightside.jpg
Then here's the box that sits above the alternator:
RelayBox.jpg
You can see the lead on the far right has some damage. Looks maybe melted not scraped or corroded.

Aside from the issues I've pointed out, I don't see any other obvious signs of damage. Here's a good picture of the belts:
50DNbelts.jpg
I've read over the instructions in the posts you guys suggested several times and am at a loss to identify with certainty some of the key parts of the system. That's why I circled what I think are the terminals. I could not find a schematic or diagram of the 50DN online or I'd have stuck with that. I did find what appears to be a generic Delco alternator/starter diagnostic manual that appears to accurately describe my system from battery bank to starter solenoid to starter to alternator, starter button, ignition switch, etc... There's multiple points of failure which is good news for me. I have lots to test and therefore lots of hope.

Please tell me if this makes sense as a first test: starting the bus and seeing if I can get a voltage reading with my multimeter from the positive and negative terminals (or just the positive and bus frame) I identified above. I was tempted to just try that but figured I better ask first. As always, I'm very grateful for your guidance.
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DoubleEagle
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Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:26 pm
Bus Model: 1975 Model 05 Eagle
1982 Model 10 Eagle
1984 Model 10 Eagle
1994 Model 15-45 Eagle
Location: Dayton, Ohio

Re: Chassis battery and stalling issues

Post by DoubleEagle »

As was indicated before, you definitely have a 50DN generator, and you have highlighted all of the connections. The finned rectangular box (as mentioned before) is the voltage regulator. It would be prudent to take off all of the connections (one at a time, so that they get back on in the right order), and clean and/or replace each connector. If the wires have bad areas of corrosion, you may need to replace the wires. Some of them may be as heavy as 0000 welding cable, and will cost. The smaller ones that look bad may be the ones that are keeping you from being charged. As far as checking whether you are being charged goes, you can simply check the voltage anywhere to see if it is above the battery reading when the engine is off. Your battery will read 12.something volts, but if it was being charged it would be reading 13 or 14 volts everywhere. Be very careful to not mix up the cable connections (remove and fix one at a time). It is possible to miswire the 50DN and have it crank out 200 Amps all the time and cook all of your batteries into a boiling acidic mess. If cleaning or replacing every connection does not do the trick, then you have to look into the voltage regulator, or the 50DN. (I have both on a Model 05 that I will be parting out at some point).

That convoluted rubber hose is the cooling air connection for the 50DN. It leads up to the air inlet box on the drivers side (with the louvers on the outside corner). You might be able to cut off that bad end and reconnect it with a ring clamp, otherwise, get a hose of the same diameter and replace it. The alternator will run hotter without it. You really need to get a Eagle parts and service manual. If you can't find an original, try coachinfo.com.
Walter
Dayton, Ohio
1975 Silvereagle Model 05, 8V71, 4 speed Spicer
1982 Eagle Model 10, 6V92, 5 speed Spicer
1984 Eagle Model 10, 6V92 w/Jacobs, Allison HT740
1994 Eagle Model 15-45, Series 60 w/Jacobs, Allison HT746
bsimmons
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:36 pm
Bus Model: 1972 Model 5 Silver Eagle

Re: Chassis battery and stalling issues

Post by bsimmons »

I believe I've found the parts and service manual but am waiting for my next pay to purchase it.
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