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Inspecting an Eagle

This is a public forum to discuss Eagle related technical issues. If you are having a problem with your Eagle, this is the place to find help.
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beltguy
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Bus Model: 1985 Eagle 10 with Series 60 and Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission (SOLD)
Location: Evergreen, CO
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Inspecting an Eagle

Post by beltguy »

LeRoy asked me in an email if we had a thread on how to inspect an Eagle. I did a bit of searching and found this excellent post by Joe Laird. It was buried in thread in the general Eagle chat forum. I thought I would start a thread in the Eagle Tech section. Hopefully folks will add their thoughts and then we will move this thread into the Technical Archives forum.

Here is Joe's list:

INSPECTING AN EAGLE

Walk up to the Bird and open the lower access door under the drivers window. If it is all rusted out close it and thank the owner for his time.This is a good indicator of things to come.

If it looks ok, open the upper access door above it. This is the forward electrical compartment. Have a good look at the wiring for corrosion and hopefully the Eagle wire numbers are still on the wiring which will make identifying the circuits easier. If you are real lucky the inside of the door will have a readable wiring diagram there.

Sight down both sides of the bus skin. Is it buckled or wavy?

Remove the front bumper and crawl up in the spare tire compartment. Look at the steering box and look for previous damage or rust.

Crawl under the bus and look at the metal under the drivers compartment.

Look at the front torsilastics.(BIG MONEY) Is the rubber hanging out of the ends of the tubes? How much thread (adjustment) is left on the adjusting rods? check the condition of the brake lines.

Look very carefully at the inside wheelwell, especially against the outer side above the tire for rust.

Open all of the bay doors. what is the condition of the bays? Are the tunnel covers there? Take them off and look at the things inside.

Look under the baggage bays. Are the longitudinal steel tubes in good shape? Is the tube under the door rusted out?

Is the fuel filler tube in good shape? Does it seal when closed?

Is the bogie out of alinement?

Check the rear torsilastics and wheel wells for the same things as the front.

Open the air compressor door. Is the bus air still there? If so I recommend you get it removed if you buy the coach.

Open the engine door and both corner doors. Hopefully the rear electrical compartment will still have the dust cover. It may also have a readable wiring diagram. Check the corner doors for operation and the wiring for condition. Look at everthing you can see. Does the engine or miter box leak?

Crawl under the bus and check the engine and transmission for leaks. Also check the cooler hoses from the engine and transmission for condition.

Open the radiator door. Does the radiator have corrosion? Damage?

Work your way up the left side checking the same things you checked on the right.

If the bus has an automatic, pull the dipstick. The fluid should be the color of transmission fluid and not have a burnt smell.

Go inside the bus and remove the access panel in the floor above the top step. Look at the stuff inside and evaluate.

Go to the inside rear of the bus and remove the engine access panels (both) and the panel just forward of them. Look at the blower and valve covers and everything else for leaks. Look at the fan hub and idler. Look at the power steering pump and air compressor and the rest of the hoses there.

Now start the bus, does it smoke? what color? does it clear up right away? Remove the oil filler tube cover. Hold your hand over the opening. Is there pressure (blowby)?

This is in no way a complete inspection but if you know the basics. tires, brakes, leaking shocks, steering wheel play, etc it may help
Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
'85 Eagle 10 with Series 60 & Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission SOLD
2005 Dodge 2500 with 5.9 Cummins and 6 speed manual 2022 Sunset 28 foot trailer
Bus Project pages: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog: https://beltguy.com/Travelogue/
Email: eaglesinternational.email at gmail.com   NOTE this email box is only for general correspondence related to the forum and not technical advice.  Technical questions will not receive a response.
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beltguy
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Re: Inspecting an Eagle

Post by beltguy »

I hope others will build on this thread.

For today I would like to discuss Torsilastic inspection.

On the front and drive axles, you look for the thread remaining on the adjustment bolts (see attached photo). The thread length you are looking for is on the outside of the lock nut. For each one inch of remaining thread, you get approximately 2 inches of lift. There are "extended" adjustment bolts available, but most folks avoid them from what I have read.

Part of the inspection is to evaluate the current ride height of the bus. That can be measured at the top of the wheel arch, or at the bottom of the body. I prefer the bottom of the body. The ideal height is 14 inches for an empty bus. If it is converted (chassis loaded by the conversion material/parts), it can be between 12 and 14 inches.

Model 05 and 10 Torsilastics are available (used and some rebuilt ones), but very costly. The 01 springs are very hard to find.

There is no way to "measure" the "remaining adjustment" on the bogey axle.

Jim
Attachments
Torsilastic Adjustment Screw with note.jpg
Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
'85 Eagle 10 with Series 60 & Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission SOLD
2005 Dodge 2500 with 5.9 Cummins and 6 speed manual 2022 Sunset 28 foot trailer
Bus Project pages: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog: https://beltguy.com/Travelogue/
Email: eaglesinternational.email at gmail.com   NOTE this email box is only for general correspondence related to the forum and not technical advice.  Technical questions will not receive a response.
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Don and Cary
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Bus Model: 1973 Eagle 05

Re: Inspecting an Eagle

Post by Don and Cary »

Do you have an attachment that shows the upper right hand corner of that one better?

Cary
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beltguy
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Re: Inspecting an Eagle

Post by beltguy »

Here are a couple of photos of my adjustment bolts.

The front is easy to inspect.
Front Torsilastic adjustment bolt.jpg
The rear is a bit more difficult. You need to get low to the ground and look up to see the remaining thread (bolt points towards the center of the bus and the remaining thread is closest to the center of the bus.
Rear Torsilastic adjustment bolt.jpg
Jim
Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
'85 Eagle 10 with Series 60 & Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission SOLD
2005 Dodge 2500 with 5.9 Cummins and 6 speed manual 2022 Sunset 28 foot trailer
Bus Project pages: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog: https://beltguy.com/Travelogue/
Email: eaglesinternational.email at gmail.com   NOTE this email box is only for general correspondence related to the forum and not technical advice.  Technical questions will not receive a response.
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beltguy
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Location: Evergreen, CO
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Re: Inspecting an Eagle

Post by beltguy »

When inspecting any bus that is for sale, the owner often states that the tires have great tread left. While that sounds great, the buyer needs to determine how old the tires are. It makes a huge difference. If the tires need to be replaced due to old age, the cost will be in the $400 per tire range (some brands being twice that much).

So how old is too old and why do we care?

When I was doing safety seminars at various conventions/rallies one of the subjects that was the most controversial was tire safety. I did a lot of research and, at the time (early 2000s) there was no documented industry/regulatory position on acceptable life of truck/RV/bus tires. In 2006 Michelin published a document (attached) that stated that the maximum life of a truck/RV/bus tire was 10 years with the caveat that after 5 years they should be inspected by a tire dealer every year (I highlighted the specific paragraph).

So why do we care? A blown tire is a horrendous event -- more so with the tires we use on our very large vehicles. A tire "explosion" can, at the minimum, result in significant damage to the wheel well area up to a crash which can result in injury or worse. At our booth, we would hear many horror stories about tire failures and it really gets your attention.

Because of the replacement cost, lots of folks use their tires well beyond the suggested 10 year limit. Most have no problems, but they are at risk.

All of our tires have a date code on them. The attached bulletin shows how to determine the date the tire was manufactured. Briefly, it is a four digit code with the first two digits being the week and the last two digits being the year of manufacture.

Jim
Attachments
Michelin Tire Technical Bulletin of service life.pdf
(65.74 KiB) Downloaded 927 times
Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
'85 Eagle 10 with Series 60 & Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission SOLD
2005 Dodge 2500 with 5.9 Cummins and 6 speed manual 2022 Sunset 28 foot trailer
Bus Project pages: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog: https://beltguy.com/Travelogue/
Email: eaglesinternational.email at gmail.com   NOTE this email box is only for general correspondence related to the forum and not technical advice.  Technical questions will not receive a response.
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beltguy
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Bus Model: 1985 Eagle 10 with Series 60 and Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission (SOLD)
Location: Evergreen, CO
Contact:

Re: Inspecting an Eagle

Post by beltguy »

I thought that I would bump this to the top again. We have some new members that are looking for an Eagle.

Jim
Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
'85 Eagle 10 with Series 60 & Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission SOLD
2005 Dodge 2500 with 5.9 Cummins and 6 speed manual 2022 Sunset 28 foot trailer
Bus Project pages: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog: https://beltguy.com/Travelogue/
Email: eaglesinternational.email at gmail.com   NOTE this email box is only for general correspondence related to the forum and not technical advice.  Technical questions will not receive a response.
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beltguy
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Location: Evergreen, CO
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Re: Inspecting an Eagle

Post by beltguy »

Time to bump this up again.

This thread is a good start to what could be a very strong tool for potential new Eagle owners. Hopefully, our members will add to this thread.

I was recently asked if there are models of Eagles to avoid. My answer is a qualified no. Any Eagle can be rebuilt into a very functional/safe vehicle.

That said, the one caution that comes up often is the Torsilastics on 01 Eagles. They are no longer available and used ones are probably getting towards the end of their life. Air springs have been added to both the front suspension and drive axle (I have not seen the tag - or bogey on other Eagle models - modified for air bags). The air springs can be used to supplement the Torsilastics or as the primary suspension.

The other question that often comes up is parts availability. With the exception of the 01 Torsilastics, most parts are available. There are still some great parts vendors http://eagles-international.net/forums/ ... 13bb40324c

Jim
Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
'85 Eagle 10 with Series 60 & Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission SOLD
2005 Dodge 2500 with 5.9 Cummins and 6 speed manual 2022 Sunset 28 foot trailer
Bus Project pages: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog: https://beltguy.com/Travelogue/
Email: eaglesinternational.email at gmail.com   NOTE this email box is only for general correspondence related to the forum and not technical advice.  Technical questions will not receive a response.
WantAnEagle
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:42 am

Re: Inspecting an Eagle

Post by WantAnEagle »

Thank you for posting this inspection list! This gives me a great place to start. I inspected my first Eagle today. It was a too much work in too many areas for me. However, it has helped me focus in on my two basic options:

1. An unconverted unit that has good maintenance records.
2. Quality mechanicals in a dated conversion that I can update a little at a time.

So, I need to start checking on some of the unconverted coaches and really weigh the benefits of each option. Then, I should be able to focus in on exactly what I am looking for.

Thanks for the jump start!
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beltguy
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Re: Inspecting an Eagle

Post by beltguy »

Paul, welcome to the forum.

Trying to find a decent Eagle can be either a terrible experience, or a fun "hunting" experience. Kind of depends or your approach.

I always suggest that folks present one (or more) of your candidates here so that we can help you vet your bus.

It is always helpful to start a thread and tell us about your goals and budget. Sometimes we can point you towards a bus that might work for you.

Now for the ever controversial subject of seated (or empty) coach vs a completed coach. The prevailing votes are for a completed coach as the best value. Often, the asking price is nickles or dimes on the dollar of what it cost to convert the bus.

The discussion about the value of converted buses goes much deeper and one big factor is commercial conversion vs owner conversion.

The pitfalls of owner conversion are obvious. That said, there are some amazing owner conversions that are top candidates. I will add some more thoughts on owner conversions in another post.

Commercial conversions are not without problems that can be very expensive to repair. Eric is working on a commercially converted bus (beautiful interior and exterior) for a customer that has had to be completely redone because of terrible hidden rust (and other) problems. Here is the link to the bus Eric is working on: https://eagles-international.net/forums ... a903683157. I post this not to scare you off, but to reinforce the thought that commercial conversions need to be vetted as carefully as an owner conversion.

Some older commercial conversions can have very significant wiring problems - not because the wiring was poorly done, but because they took advantage of technology that was evolving at the time - and that can really come back to bite you. Many years ago there was a big push to include all the bells and whistles that the new (now old) technology could provide and now replacement parts are no longer available. I used to represent Silverleaf Electronics (https://www.silverleafelectronics.com/) and they have a good business of providing alternatives to legacy electronic systems, but the cost of the parts and labor is not trivial.

This post is getting long, so I will stop here and add a new reply that addresses my thoughts on owner conversions.

Jim
Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
'85 Eagle 10 with Series 60 & Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission SOLD
2005 Dodge 2500 with 5.9 Cummins and 6 speed manual 2022 Sunset 28 foot trailer
Bus Project pages: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog: https://beltguy.com/Travelogue/
Email: eaglesinternational.email at gmail.com   NOTE this email box is only for general correspondence related to the forum and not technical advice.  Technical questions will not receive a response.
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DoubleEagle
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Bus Model: 1975 Model 05 Eagle
1982 Model 10 Eagle
1984 Model 10 Eagle
1994 Model 15-45 Eagle
Location: Dayton, Ohio

Re: Inspecting an Eagle

Post by DoubleEagle »

[quote="beltguy"]LeRoy asked me in an email if we had a thread on how to inspect an Eagle. I did a bit of searching and found this excellent post by Joe Laird. It was buried in thread in the general Eagle chat forum. I thought I would start a thread in the Eagle Tech section. Hopefully folks will add their thoughts and then we will move this thread into the Technical Archives forum.

INSPECTING AN EAGLE

"Walk up to the Bird and open the lower access door under the drivers window. If it is all rusted out close it and thank the owner for his time.This is a good indicator of things to come."

I always had some exception to Joe's opening comment about the lower access door. I feel that judging a bus by one particular area is not entirely a good way to proceed, especially since some time has passed and everybody's Eagle has gotten older. Rust can be repaired, the question is whether the rest of the bus is worth it, and how much time and money is involved. As the number of Eagles dwindle, prospective owners might need to be more open to doing repairs that would have caused them to keep looking in past years. The key thing is doing a complete inspection that reveals all of the needed repairs so that a fair value can be determined before buying the coach. Visually eyeballing the bus will not reveal everything. For example, tapping the frame members with a hammer might find weak areas that bend or bust through, but drilling a few carefully chosen holes in vertical frame members that don't sound the same as others might reveal that they are full of water.

Unless the Eagle has been completely dismantled, rebuilt, repowered, reskinned, and painted (at great expense beyond the limits of most mortal men), there will be things to fix. If a person venturing into the world of Eagles is not familiar with them, despite having mechanical abilities and experience, they would be very wise to enlist the aid of someone who does know Eagles. Otherwise, there will be a steep learning curve.

The way things are currently, it is far wiser to buy an Eagle that was an Entertainer or was previously converted, assuming that the buyer wants to be frugal. The cost of converting from scratch will be far more. It's nice to think that you will be creative and have a clean slate, but it will take a lot of time and money, and your end result might be a layout that is used by many others. All of the comments here about inspection have merit and should be studied carefully, after all, they are based on someone's good or bad experience.
Walter
Dayton, Ohio
1975 Silvereagle Model 05, 8V71, 4 speed Spicer
1982 Eagle Model 10, 6V92, 5 speed Spicer
1984 Eagle Model 10, 6V92 w/Jacobs, Allison HT740
1994 Eagle Model 15-45, Series 60 w/Jacobs, Allison HT746
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