Website Home | Info & Posts | Club Membership | Eagle History | Contact Us

**** GREAT NEWS - THERE IS SLOW PROGRESS ON THE SITE UPDATE****

The new administrator has been establishing a plan for the update of this site.

#### The forum is availabe for reading and posting. ####

For update activity/status click on this thread.

The forum registration feature has been restored and the "contact us" option will be available soon.

Chassis battery and stalling issues

This is a public forum to discuss Eagle related technical issues. If you are having a problem with your Eagle, this is the place to find help.


This looks like a battery cutoff switch maybe?
176968B5-C4EB-44D8-B9A5-279DFB8CE317.jpeg


Here’s the chrome switches and the wires for the switch shown above.
A119C81F-830C-4DE6-8595-1D9B1EF11E3A.jpeg


I found the frankenswitch in the off position. If that is a battery cutoff switch then I’ve been using only one battery bay this whole time.
bsimmons
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:36 pm




So it looks like I have a 31P30 on the main connection (left bay) and a 31C on the other connection. I also have a 31C sitting in another bay that I replaced in the street one day after a stall and non-start. All 3 are currently reading 11v or so. I'm wondering if I can group the extra 31C with his buddy in the right bay and then buy another 31P30 and group that with the main connection in the left bay. All 3 batteries have 950 CCA but there may be a difference in their CA at 32 deg Celsius.

Also, I read the drivers manual that said the right way to turn off the vehicle is to simply turn the ignition key off. That's never worked for me in this bus. In fact, the guy who I bought it from said you have no choice but to use the emergency stop. The manual says after doing that you have to reset the red emergency stop bar in the engine bay. I don't see one of those and have been able to use the emergency stop over and over without resetting anything.
bsimmons
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:36 pm




Let's do the batteries first. 11 volts is a dead battery. A fully charged "at rest" battery (no charge or discharge for 24 hours) is something like 12.6 volts. 50 percent of charge is a bit more than 12 volts and 11 volts is something like 5 percent state of charge.

You should get all of your 31s load tested at a parts store and see if they are good. If they are, you can try them and see what happens. I would still plan to buy 3 new 31s when you can.

Sounds like you have a charging problems, but we can attack that later.

Now for the shut down issue: You need to find out why the skinner valve is not shutting the engine down. Using the emergency shut down can damage engine components (such as blower seals). I have included photos of skinner valves. You can push on the shut off arm manually and it should shut the engine down.

Governor with skinner valves.JPG


Jim
Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
'85 Eagle 10 with Series 60 & Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission - not at all fancy, but fully functional
Bus Project pages: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog: http://beltguy.com/blog/
Email: jim@eaglesinternational.net Note: Email sent to the this address requesting technical advice will not receive a response
User avatar
beltguy
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 2162
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:39 am
Location: Evergreen, CO




Oh boy, you have a bucket of worms there. It's no wonder you are having troubles. The first picture looks like something that was cobbled up for an unknown purpose, the second is of the remote starter switches (which are chrome alright, but are not the larger shut-off switches). Jim is correct about the batteries, and since they are fairly new, it looks like they are not being charged and/or being drained when the engine is not running.

The fuel shut-off arm (the curved one) is pushed by air pressure released by the "skinner" valve to the left air cylinder which is triggered electrically by turning the ignition switch off. The arm pivots on the right side, and depending on how much room you have, you can reach in and push it with your fingers.It would be far safer to push it with a long screwdriver or something similar. If the air pressure is still there but the air cylinder is stuck (from lack of use) it can fire off suddenly and stab you in the hand (now, how do I know that?). Jim's picture was probably taken of a removed engine or through the floor hatch. From the rear, it will appear to be only a couple inches from the floor bottom. The air cylinder on the right is for the high idle setting.

If you have the emergency stop style that consists of a metal flap that cuts off the air intake passage, you should not use it unless it is an emergency like a runaway engine. It is very possible that using it has caused damage to the blower seals, but it is more likely that it is partially closed, and that could explain your reduced power. The previous owner did not brief you very well about how things work, or he did not know a lot about it himself, in my opinion. Or did he tell you a lot, and you did not take notes?

If you do not have one, get a multimeter electrical tester that can read AC or DC volts (I'm hoping you read the 11 volts on your batteries yourself). Charge those two batteries that are in the left and right compartments to get them up to 12 something volts so that you can start it. Once the engine is running, (and practice pushing the fuel shut-off before you start, it should spring back when you let go of it), check the voltage of the batteries to see if they read 13 something volts. That would indicate the alternator is working, or not. Your alternator is the original style 50DN (if I recall the model correctly) which can put out over 200 Amps, and costs about $950 for a rebuilt one. That is why many put on smaller truck alternators instead. The rectangular box on the left side of your picture is the voltage regulator, which has a circuit board inside that used to be available (twenty years ago) for about $100. There is also a relay switch in the electrical panel on top that feeds the current to the voltage regulator and alternator that can go bad. That alternator is very heavy, and it would take a lift or two people to get it out (and three to get it in). You need to establish if you have those two shut-off switches or not on the right side rear. They have multiple heavy cables visible behind them, and should be turned off when the coach is not running. The third battery should be used for interior lights, etc., but it also needs to be charged.

You probably need to get it going well enough to get it to your mechanic so that he can sort it out. Don't forget to take notes! Remember, there is no need to put on new parts if used ones will do, the bus is not new. :D

Walter
Walter
Dayton, Ohio
1975 Silvereagle Model 05, 8V71, 4 speed Spicer
1982 Eagle Model 10, 6V92, 5 speed Spicer
1984 Eagle Model 10, 6V92 w/Jacobs, Allison HT740
User avatar
DoubleEagle
 
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:26 pm
Location: Dayton, Ohio




Do you have a picture of what the battery cut-off switches may look like? THe right rear is currently housing some makeshift propane setup.
bsimmons
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:36 pm




Bryan,

Here are two pictures; the first one is a single switch on a 1984 Model 10, the second is a double switch on a 1975 Model 05 with the bottom switch missing because I robbed it to help someone out. Notice that both switch handles are identical. You should have them like the second picture. They might be covered up, or worse, taken out and not replaced. A long positive lead from the battery would go to one side of the switch back, cables to the starter and electrical panel would be on the other terminal (only two).

Walter
Attachments
001.JPG
002.JPG
Walter
Dayton, Ohio
1975 Silvereagle Model 05, 8V71, 4 speed Spicer
1982 Eagle Model 10, 6V92, 5 speed Spicer
1984 Eagle Model 10, 6V92 w/Jacobs, Allison HT740
User avatar
DoubleEagle
 
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:26 pm
Location: Dayton, Ohio




Hey thanks for the pics. I definitely don’t see anything close to that in there. Can’t find those skinner valves either. But I have a friend meeting me on Sat who is an old diesel mechanic. He’s gonna learn me about my system. Then I should be well equipped to follow your lead.

Have to move sites tomorrow. For now I’m putting 2 31s in parallel on either side. I don’t have to go far tomorrow so I should be fine.
bsimmons
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:36 pm




Bryan,

The Skinner Valves (there are two) are located on the right side of the electrical panel on the top over the engine. Thin air lines lead from them to the air cylinders in Jim's picture of the top of the engine. Those air cylinders can be replaced with a fuel shut-off electric solenoid that costs about $200. The cylinders and Skinner Valves can be rebuilt, sometimes.

Walter
Walter
Dayton, Ohio
1975 Silvereagle Model 05, 8V71, 4 speed Spicer
1982 Eagle Model 10, 6V92, 5 speed Spicer
1984 Eagle Model 10, 6V92 w/Jacobs, Allison HT740
User avatar
DoubleEagle
 
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:26 pm
Location: Dayton, Ohio




Alright. We made it to the next site. Was only 9 miles. I have figured out that the alternator is indeed not charging. I got the No Charge light on the dash and checked the voltage on the batteries after having them checked out at Sams club and autozone. Colts went down after startup, never up.

This may be naive or overly optimistic but is there a chance the alternator just needs some TLC or percussive maintenance?

Also, I found the skinner valves but am not sure about the arm. I’ll update more later. Thanks for all the wisdom so far. You guys are great.
bsimmons
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:36 pm




Bryan,

Percussive maintenance will result in the hammer bouncing off the alternator and hitting you. :lol: As I suggested before, the relay switch that feeds current to it for the field might be bad, the voltage regulator might be bad, or the 50DN might be shot. I suspect one of the first two, but who knows how long the 50DN has been running. It would be best if someone knowledgeable could check it out with everything in place.

The curved fuel shut-off arm in Jim's picture will look different from the rear, but it is there, and there is only one of them in that area. Put some strong lights in there to see better. How did you shut it down this time?
Last edited by DoubleEagle on Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Walter
Dayton, Ohio
1975 Silvereagle Model 05, 8V71, 4 speed Spicer
1982 Eagle Model 10, 6V92, 5 speed Spicer
1984 Eagle Model 10, 6V92 w/Jacobs, Allison HT740
User avatar
DoubleEagle
 
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:26 pm
Location: Dayton, Ohio


PreviousNext

Return to Eagle Tech

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests