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Front End Rebuild

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Re: Front End Rebuild
Wed May 22, 2013 2:38 pm


I was looking at Randy's pictures mostly the toe in bars. ( the rest of the pictures I avoid as the bar has been set to high) I will use something similar to set my toe in I will probably contact the rim and not the hub. But I was thinking of setting the camber with something that bolted to the rim and use a level that is digital. Do you think the new digital levels are good enough for that?

Wayne
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Re: Front End Rebuild
Wed May 22, 2013 4:48 pm


Wayne,

We use digital levels at the shop now in several places. They are really friendly and accurate to use. Most read to tenths of a degree and they are reasonably priced. Check out McMaster-Carr or MSC for different configurations....oh you probably already have a bitchin one if I know you...lol

I would like to improve on my toe-in bars so I can use them to check the alignment of the boggies and rear axle relative to the front wheels. The set I made in the picture were originally made to just fit on the hubs for initial set-up. When I discovered the bump steer, I modified them to bolt on the wheels so I could check the toe with the static weight of the bus, on the tires and sitting at loaded ride height.

They are just sitting here if anyone would like to use them. I can UPS them anywhere pretty cheap. I'll donate them to the cause and we can all improve on the concept and maybe they will evolve into an "alignment kit" that club members can share to check their buses out with. I can machine parts, waterjet plates that bolt to hubs etc. and even build a shipping box to ship them around. I'll bet Eric & the east coast boys can put the whole WWAI to this idea!! :lol: :lol:

Just a thought.......

Randy Coons
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Re: Front End Rebuild
Wed May 22, 2013 6:11 pm


Sweet!!!!! Now that's restoration buddy.
The talent and love here for Eagles amazes me.


Great job!!!

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Re: Front End Rebuild
Wed May 22, 2013 6:47 pm


Hmmmm, that is a lot to comtemplate. Sounds like the final step is to do a complete, correct weight and ride height adjustment (you need to borrow my digital wheel scales, buddy) and install some correct wheels. As you know mine has been widened and personally I think it looks better with the wheels in than sticking all the way out there, especially on the drive where there can be a lot of spray. I bet they suffered a lot of body damage from tire chains on the old line haul rigs. I run 315's which does not make it look that different. I want to install a new box as I can not detect any play in the output shaft of the current box, and myself and 3 other professionals have checked each rod end and there is zero play. Kaiser has done a 3 axle alignment on mine and last year I put it on their pit and we checked everything again. Cary came to the conclusion that a new box was needed, but maybe his revenue was what he was talking about. Oh, and the bus has only 170,000 miles from new, so you would assume the pins and bushings were not worn out, but as they say, assume nothing. My 5 foot stretch did of course make it real heavy on the front end, I struggle to keep in the 14,000 to 14,500 lb range and have taken all the weight off the front of the coach that I can (except for the fat ass driver). And let's not talk about turning radius, I have to be on my toes all the time there. c'est la vie, let me know when you get it all figured out buddy and I will bring mine on down. Thanks for the info. Wish this thing handled as good as the Silverside.
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Re: Front End Rebuild
Wed May 22, 2013 9:14 pm


IMO I think the biggest mistake Eagle made was went they went to the 24.5 tires in 1977, I tried a set on my 05 it wasn't a week I was back to my 12r x22.5 the thing drove terrible

I was planning on going to the 315 with a 9 in wheel it just make sense to me that would help maybe not I never tried it on a Eagle but the Prevost sure drive nice with the 315's and the IFS there was no wheel effort to keep it going north and south in a straight line
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Re: Front End Rebuild
Wed May 22, 2013 9:47 pm


Clifford, What is the correct "offset" or "inset" for let's say my model 01, if I were to change to Alcoa's in a 22.5?
Jim & Denise
"Casper" Eagle 01 1966
"Eagle 2" Model 15 1989
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Re: Front End Rebuild
Wed May 22, 2013 11:25 pm


Clifford,

Both our 01 and the 10 have 22.5 X 12R wheels & tires. The 10 just has the custom offset wheels in steel and the 01 has Alcoa's. The 315's are a lot of tire but I have no experience with anything other than the 22.5's. Either way if everything is positioned were it needs to be and is tight (no slop) the bus should drive itself! It's 40 ft. long for crying out loud!!

Now that I'm thinking about it....when I measured from the toe-in bars (when they were mounted on the hubs) to the center of the front casting ...there was about a 1/2" difference from the approximate center of the bus side to side. This was from what I determined to be the middle of the big casting that is welded to the main frame. I think the true center line of the bus is off. Once again I didn't take the time (because I was short on it!!) to really figure it out . Probably manufacturing tolerances....but when you stretch this discrepancy out to 30-40 feet it might make a difference! Maybe Daniel Lenz or others can enlighten us on the accuracy of the chassis from the factory.

....I always think of the post where the guy talked about driving down a two mile stretch of straight road and letting go of the steering wheel, closing his eyes and counting to twenty....when he opened them the bus was centered between the lines......that's what I'm talking about :lol: :lol:

Hope I didn't open up too big a can of worms....lol

Randy Coons
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Re: Front End Rebuild
Thu May 23, 2013 7:03 am


Randy You talk about bump steering. There is another adjustment that needs to be looked at to help bump steering. All three tie rods must be in a straight plane when the coach is loaded and steering is facing straight ahead. You adjust this by shimming the double steering arms up or down to get a straight line thru all three tie rods. If this is confusing call me and i will explain.

Wayne
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Re: Front End Rebuild
Thu May 23, 2013 7:25 am


Randy,

I agree with Wayne, the bar is set very high!

Most of us that have gotten older have lowered our bar a bit. We don't limbo anymore. It's hard enough just to get out of bed.

Great talking to you the other day.

Beautiful work and great motivation! What an inspiration to others.

If you would like the alignment specs out of the Eagle Trouble Shooting manual, let me know. I had my front end completely rebuilt when I bought the Eagle. A simple truck alignment shop set alignment from my manual and it has driven excellent for over 17 years, including many trips to and from Alaska.

1/8" toe-in is for trucks in my opinion!
Joe Laird
'78 05
Sioux Falls, SD
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Re: Front End Rebuild
Thu May 23, 2013 7:31 am


I find the ugly NJT model 20 a good driving Eagle,then Freedoom a charter co in In his buses drove better than most all Eagles and he would never tell me how they made one drive so good.

You start changing caps adding crap to the roof they change in a hurry also I went to Brownsville and spoke with a design engineer about caps on my 05 and he convinced me the 15 cap on the front and a slanted cap on the rear and nothing on the roof was the way to go so I took his advice and installed the CrusiAir's 9 grand for 3 units never regretted it

Mine drove good but it would still dart in the wind but not as bad as most I had Shepard steering not the Ross you could turn the wheel loose with no wind on a level road till I bent a alignment rod on the rear axle then it changed till I replaced the bar

Once you get it right like you are doing they drive good
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